Ashley Yeh: Montessori + EC

Welcome to today's show, and I have a very special guest again this week. We have just been inundated with recommendations from you guys on our Instagram of who we should be interviewing on the podcast, so if you have more ideas, definitely find me @godiaperfree on Instagram and send me your suggestions. But today we've got Ashley Yeh from the Hapa Family Vlog, and that's at Instagram @hapafamilyvlog. She's also got a really awesome YouTube channel, Hapa Family, and a website. We're going to link to all these things over on the show notes at godiaperfree.com/187. Ashley, as a Montessori guide, a Positive Discipline Parent Educator, and a graduate of RIE. I've got so much more for you in this interview, I hope you really enjoy it. I personally love Montessori, so I hope you enjoy this interview.

Hey there, welcome to the Go Diaper Free podcast. I'm Andrea Olson, your host, author, and mom of five babies, all EC from birth, all out of diapers by walking.

Andrea Olson:
All right, you guys, today we have another interview. I think I'm on a streak here of just interviewing all the most amazing people from all over the internet that are helping parents like ourselves navigate early infancy in childhood. Today, I have a very special guest. This is Ashley Yeh, she is a certified Montessori guide for infants and toddlers, a Positive Discipline Parent Educator, and a graduate of RIE Foundations: Theory and Observation course, which we had RIE on our podcast... Oh, I talked about that a lot, RIE and EC, several weeks ago. Ashley, before becoming a parent, spent several years working as an educator in public classrooms. She has a really deep respect and passion for Montessori approach, and raised her two daughters from infancy with Montessori principles. I actually found her through you guys on my Instagram. You guys were like, "Oh, you have got to connect with Ashley." And then, I also was doing YouTube research and came across you, of course, and realized I had seen your videos before. Ashley, I just went to welcome you to the show.

Ashley Yeh:
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

Andrea Olson:
It's a really interesting thing where we actually both have some overlap. I definitely did Montessori with my children, as much as I could figure out. I did some Montessori homeschooling, preparing them for early reading. I just have always been drawn to Montessori. Made the mobiles myself, did all the things with the floor bed, and the mirrors, and the pull-up bars.

Ashley Yeh:
All the things.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah, all the things. Yeah. I was like, "Okay, which thing should I..." Oh, it's so much. It's so overwhelming. What I love about your YouTube channel is that you make it so simple for new moms, probably dads as well, to wrap their heads around how to make this practical in the home. I think that's part of what you share, so why don't you share with all of my listeners what you're about and what you're hoping to help people with?

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah, I think you basically hit the nail on the head. I started doing this with my first daughter when she was about six months old, which is when I first came into Montessori. I was already doing some things with a blog online. I didn't have a YouTube channel or anything, but just as time went on, I did start the YouTube channel. I was just so excited about the things that I was seeing doing Montessori at home with her, I actually said to my husband, I said, "This is really awesome. I want to be able to share this with other parents. I think they would really enjoy knowing about this stuff." And so, he was like, "Well, why don't you start a little miniseries?" And I did, and it basically turned into my entire YouTube channel now that tends to focus on Montessori. It's practical tips and advice for busy parents like you and I, that's my tagline at the end of every one of my videos.

Andrea Olson:
We need that in our lives. Everybody needs practical advice. There's so much parenting information out there and it's just like, "Oh, where do we even begin?" So your channel is called Hapa Family. Why? H-A-P-A.

Ashley Yeh:
Some people think that it's my last name, it's not. Hapa actually is a reference to somebody who has a partial Asian descent, so because my husband is Taiwanese. It's more of a reference to our girls than anything.

Andrea Olson:
Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm a quarter Filipino myself and part Cherokee, so we're definitely a mixed family here.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
I wonder if that applies to me. Are Filipinos technically Asian?

Ashley Yeh:
I know the word has Hawaiian origins.

Andrea Olson:
Oh, I love it.

Ashley Yeh:
... Pacific Islander, that kind of area of the world.

Andrea Olson:
All right. I'm going to join the Hapa Family. You guys, also please follow Ashley on all the places, I just want to tell you early on. I know that a lot of you listen all the way to the end or watch to the end, so I'll also mention this again at the end. Where did you hear about Montessori? Because I know for me, I just saw other parents I knew around doing it, but was there a specific source? You just mentioned how you applied it and loved it, but where'd you get your info?

Ashley Yeh:
I'm definitely a planner. When my daughter was six months old, she was taking a nap one day and I was, of course, thinking years down the line and I'm like, "Where am I going to send her to preschool?" So I started looking at schools in the area. And I realized that we had a Montessori school pretty close by. It immediately sent off a little flag in my mind, because I actually attended a Montessori school when I was in elementary school. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know that it went down to the preschool age level." Now that I know, even before that, but at that time I was completely unaware. I started doing a little bit of reading, and long story short, I went down the Google rabbit hole and never came out.

Andrea Olson:
Right. I love that. I'm going to close my curtains for a second here. The sun likes to come in really, really bright, and then I won't be able to see you. Okay. That's super interesting, just thinking ahead. I'm also a planner and... I don't know. I'm homeschooling now, which I never thought I would be doing. I think a lot of us are finding ourselves in that situation in today's day and age.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
One of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on is not only to talk about this, but in a little bit, we're going to talk about infant potty training and EC. Because, you guys, Ashley did attempt this with her first child, and I really want to share, or have her share her story with you guys because I think there's a lot that we all can learn from this. And then, we'll also talk about Montessori in relation to potty training and early potty learning, specifically. But first, Montessori is something that I know that a lot of the people listening are into or interested in, because it just aligns so well with a natural upbringing, where we're aligning ourselves with a developmental task that each baby is going through in the same order, depending on the length of time, some of them have developmental delays, but it's still the same developmental order. I love how she really observed children and realized, "What do we need to do? How can we facilitate the learning that's already happening?"

Ashley Yeh:
Right.

Andrea Olson:
With that in mind, what's your favorite aspect of Montessori?

Ashley Yeh:
I think you mentioned a keyword, there, is observing, she observed the children. That's what I have learned to do as a Montessori parent, is to really step back and observe a whole lot more than I think I did in those first couple of months. For me, that is one of the most joyous aspects of it, because you do get a chance to kind of be a fly on the wall and see exactly what your child is capable of doing. You're watching them discover the world on their own terms and it's beautiful. It's just beautiful to watch it unfold. And so, that's the part of it that keeps me going every single day is knowing that's always happening.

Andrea Olson:
Always. Yeah. If we just pause all the distractions for a moment and just look and see what is unfolding in front of our very eyes, it's amazing.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
Well, I love that too. Now tell me, a lot of the Montessori stuff I've read has been so dense.

Ashley Yeh:
Yes.

Andrea Olson:
For me, being postpartum so many... I've had five kids over the span of eight years, and just having so much postpartum fog, it's been a little bit hard to wrap my mind around it. But from what I gather, there's the work at different developmental phases, and the work is the child's developmental task they're working on right now. Can you tell us a little bit about your take on Montessori's philosophy on practical life skills at a young age, especially we're talking the first year, two years?

Ashley Yeh:
Montessori focuses on preparing the environment, right? That's our job as adults is to make sure we're setting things up for our child's success, regardless of how old they are. Our focus becomes really trying to create some of those opportunities for learning those skills, and make them available to our child. We're constantly observing, we're just waiting to be ready. We're their guide on the side, and we're watching and responding to their unique timeline, helping them master those skills as they're showing the interest and the readiness for it. With babies, it's a lot about cooperation. You're going through all the same things that any other parent is doing any other kind of parenting philosophy. You're helping them through diaper changes and learning how to get dressed, and it's a very slow, gradual process. But in Montessori, you're really aiming to have this cooperative piece in there that I think sometimes is missed. As opposed to doing all of these things to your baby, you are involving them in it.

You're giving them opportunities to shove an arm through the hole, or to lift their bum up a little bit so you can get the diaper underneath. You're involved and going a little bit more slowly than I think we tend to do. I think parents sometimes think of it as a task that needs to be completed, so that they can then get back to playing, it's just another check on the to-do list. In Montessori, we really try to focus on slowing down and helping our children learn these skills by going at a pace that they can handle, and using that time for connection, too. That's something that I picked up when I was doing the RIE course, is that these are golden times that we get to spend with our children, especially when they're infants, and it's not something to just be done as quickly as possible.

Andrea Olson:
No. Every older person... Even yesterday, we were at a restaurant, and really, 90-year-old-something was like, "You need to savor her every moment."

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
Every time anybody older than me says that, I'm like, "You're right."

Ashley Yeh:
Doesn't it get you?

Andrea Olson:
It gets me. Every time, I'm like, "Thank you." Whoever is listening that might be older, please keep telling us that. We need to hear this. It really helps us appreciate how quickly all of this... My youngest is three now and I'm yearning for another baby. I'm divorced, so that's sort of a technicality there, but I really just miss that when time stands... You can literally make time stand still. And then not treating them like a doll that's passive, that's just along for the ride and you're doing things to them, that we're actually teaming up with them to raise them. We're raising each other. With EC, we totally, obviously, do that. They are active participants from the very first day of life, for some of us who are doing that. Now on that note, let's segue a little bit into early potty training.

Ashley Yeh:
Sure.

Andrea Olson:
We have one of our Go Diaper Free certified coaches out in Colorado is an... What's AMI stand for?

Ashley Yeh:
It's Association Montessori Internationale. It's actually Dr. Montessori's own training organization that she created to ensure the integrity of her legacy.

Andrea Olson:
Ah, okay. AMI is the organization, and that's what one of our coaches is. She's an educator with the infant class there.

Ashley Yeh:
Okay.

Andrea Olson:
Well actually, the 12 to 18 month. I've learned so much from her over the years about, in this Montessori classroom that she worked in, how they put them in cotton pants right at 12 months, regardless of readiness, and how they did group pottying, basically, off of timing based on when they're eating their meals. Every wet underpant was just a learning experience.

It was more like, "Hey, let's set up this environment so that we can provide the opportunity for them to do this work they're sensitive to right now." What would you say, in addition to that, what else can we know about how Montessori intended us to treat early potty training, or how it's being treated in Montessori right now?

Ashley Yeh:
Going off of what you said, we are following... The key phrase in Montessori is follow the child, right?

Andrea Olson:
Right.

Ashley Yeh:
We're always observing our child, we're responding to their needs accordingly. Again, seeing ourselves in that role as an observer. And then, also making sure that we're not getting into this mindset that we are training them, we're not potty training. We tend to use the phrase toilet learning just to help remind ourselves, even, at times that it is a learning process. It's something that everybody eventually learns. And so, because it's not training, we're not offering rewards, we're not punishing them or even shaming them or making them feel bad about having an accident, none of that is involved. It's just a very respectful, slow process of what they're showing us their needs are from day-to-day, moment-to-moment.

Andrea Olson:
Right. What we often see, and a lot of people will find me in that 11- to 18- month realm, is when they say, "Oh, well, my child keeps coming to the bathroom when I go to the bathroom, and knows what I'm doing, and wants to do it, too. Is this too early?" I think that that's part of observing the child, and what they're needing right then is to start doing that task.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah. Even from a parent perspective, I was always looking at setting up, not just jumping right into toilet learning as the process, "Okay, now we're getting the underwear." Before that comes this whole toileting awareness phase, where they do start recognizing those kinds of things, and they are interested in things like, "Hey, what are you doing in here?" They start to want to imitate what they see you doing in their play, if it's not necessarily in that exact moment. And so, that's the key time that you really are seeing that your child is perhaps ready to begin this awareness phase, and to start preparing the environment so that they can have the opportunity to be successful and try it out when they feel like they're ready.

Andrea Olson:
Tell me a little bit about how you prepared the environment when you decided to start with your early toilet learning.

Ashley Yeh:
Sure. I think you kind of mentioned this, but I'll elaborate a little more for listeners. When my older daughter was about, I want to say maybe three or four months old, I was at a friend's house who had a nine month old, and she was doing EC with her daughter. I had never heard of it before that, and it was right before I found out about Montessori, so it was independent of Montessori, and I was blown away. I was like, "I'm sorry, what? Did you just tell me that your nine month old was on a potty upstairs, doing what?" I heard her shouting, "I got a number two," to her husband downstairs and my head wanted to explode. I was like, "I didn't even know this was a thing," so of course I wanted to learn more about it. I did a little bit of part-time EC with her, and I feel like that was my initial foray into some early potty learning. I say part-time in the sense that I wasn't super watching every single little cue that she was giving. Actually, I did try. In all transparency, I tried.

Honestly, either she was just a ninja and I couldn't pick up on her cues or what, or maybe I just wasn't very good at it, but I just found that I missed them constantly. And so, I just switched over to normal, natural times, when she would wake up from a nap or before she'd go on for a nap.

Andrea Olson:
Oh, great. So you continued to expose her to the potty during times that we just transitioned.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah. That's what we did for about six months or so. Then after that, I already learned a little bit more about the Montessori approach to it, and I saw that they actually dovetailed quite nicely together. I started setting up the environment around 12 months. We got the cotton undies out and she was in those for a couple of weeks, but I very quickly recognized that she was not quite ready yet. I could just see, when she had accidents, it was just complete unawareness on her part that it was really even happening. She didn't seem bothered about being wet, so I was like, "Okay, I'm going to take a step back here and I'm going to wait for a little longer." We were also doing just some very minor baby sign language with her at the time, and I was trying to teach her the sign for toileting.

Andrea Olson:
Yes.

Ashley Yeh:
She picked it up as rubbing her fingers together.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah.

Ashley Yeh:
Right around the 16, 17 month mark, she would come up to me and start telling me, "I have to go," and so I was like, "She's ready," so we picked back up where we left off. The potties were out. We had one in our playroom because it was where the area that we spend most of our day at, and so I just wanted to make sure that she had that as a visual cue.

Andrea Olson:
Because often, they will go, and out of sight out of mind. If it's in the room, then it's easier, it facilitates that.

Ashley Yeh:
Right. I had a little potty with a basket, and some books, and fresh underwear, and some toilet paper right there. It is very helpful, I thought, for her to have that in her line of sight at all times.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah. You guys, did you hear that? This is facilitating the environment, that is setting them up for success, in that she's created this little miniature potty station for her child and it's accessible. It's in the play area, yeah?

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
It's just part of normal, everyday life, and this is the work, these are the practical life skills that they're learning. Just so organic, I love that. Between 10 and 16 months would you say that you did more exposure? Did you still do the wake up offerings?

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
Great.

Ashley Yeh:
We continued that all the way through. Those in-between moments when I wasn't offering, that's when she really picked up on that, and we took off from there.

Andrea Olson:
Oh, I love it. This is such a unique, just a beautiful painting, a beautiful illustration of the possibilities. With EC, the way that I teach it is just anything literally goes, just offering every day at every wake up, offering it a diaper change, offering before and after the car seat, that does count. I just got done teaching a signals class last week, and basically, the whole point of the class was, if your baby doesn't signal, it doesn't mean that you're not good at EC, or that you just don't know enough as the parent, or that your baby's broken, or they're just like... Yeah, even you said a super first stealthy ninja pottier. It doesn't even mean that it. Basically, when they get mobile, they should, for hundreds of thousands of years, be able to just take themselves outside, and go where everybody else goes, at least outside of the door. And then they start to go further, and then the big kids take them, and by the time they're walking... As if they would need to signal to us, once they're crawling. They just don't need to.

You're starting at three or four months, not picking up any cues, that's because there often aren't any after. In the very first three months, there are a lot, because they're just like, "Oh, I just..." Everything's vocal, but you have to pick out, "Okay. Which one is nursing? Which one is sleep? Which one do I just want to be held? Which one is potty?" I would say about a third of them are signals of, "I need to go potty," and you're just like, "Oh, I didn't realize that until I felt that you're wet."

There's quite an art and a little bit of science to figuring that, out just for everybody listening. But if your baby does not signal, it doesn't mean that EC can't work. The way you're describing it, Ashley, it completely and absolutely worked, and then you wrapped up with a toilet learning experience where you were more engaged in providing that environment for her to wrap up with.

Ashley Yeh:
That's good to know.

Andrea Olson:
That is storybook EC and you didn't even know it.

Ashley Yeh:
All right. Woo hoo.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah. Yay. Because transition times... And also, EC is such a great exposure technique, so you're not just popping the potty on them later and saying, "Okay, here, now we're going to use this."

Ashley Yeh:
Right.

Andrea Olson:
You really, her whole life, were very much exposing her to that, which I think is just so natural and wonderful. I just want to applaud you.

Ashley Yeh:
Thank you.

Andrea Olson:
You even realized that there are four ways to know a baby needs to pee, and you basically were doing three of them and just not the signals one. That totally counts. That's amazing.

Ashley Yeh:
I'm excited to hear that.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah. In retrospect, I know

Ashley Yeh:
Here I was thinking this whole time that I was this EC failure.

Andrea Olson:
Right?

Ashley Yeh:
That's great.

Andrea Olson:
You weren't. Anybody listening who felt the same way as Ashley, "Oh my gosh, there's no signals. I feel like a failure," I'm going to link to the class that I just taught last week that will teach you all about signals, and also how to get your child to start to signal.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah, I was thinking that'd be good.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah.

Ashley Yeh:
I was thinking, as you said that, that would've been incredibly helpful, had I known that class existed.

Andrea Olson:
It's brand new. I literally just made it last week, because so many people ask me, they're like, "Well, how do I know they need to pee if they don't signal?" That's a lot of our babies during that age range, just... The Montessori work, all the work, the life skills. There's just so much during that period that it's sort of secondary, and they could just pee and move on, honestly. If they were outside, they wouldn't really need to tell anybody.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
Now, during this process with your first daughter, did you have any big stumbling blocks when you were working with her on pottying, or was it just a matter of what you already explained, "Hey, I'm just going to step back and wait a little bit"?

Ashley Yeh:
I would say my girls were definitely ready around that 16, 17 month mark when we really started getting into the nitty gritty of it, they were ready, and it went really smoothly. After what I experienced with my first daughter, it was even easier with my second going through that again. It wasn't this process to be feared, like I had heard about before I came across this way of doing it. I'm very thankful for that. The only stumbling blocks that I really came across were primarily around myself. I had to make sure that I was catching myself not hovering and making it feel like I was pushing it a little bit too much. Because I was just excited, not that I wanted to be pushing it, but I was excited. I wanted them to be successful. I was like, "Okay, I'm hovering too much. I need to back up a little bit."

Andrea Olson:
Totally.

Ashley Yeh:
Just learning to let go, like Frozen, let it go-

Andrea Olson:
Yes, completely.

Ashley Yeh:
Yes.

Andrea Olson:
Because when you do that, that's when that gives a child the space to really think for themselves and to go, "Okay, I actually have this will," I know Montessori talks a lot about will. "I want to do this." When it comes from inside, there's no power struggle. It's just natural.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
You just sync up with where they're at, and they do that with you too, and it's this beautiful dance.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah. I really wanted them to... Yeah. Sorry about that.

Andrea Olson:
That's okay.

Ashley Yeh:
I really wanted them to recognize that they have ownership over this process. It wasn't dependent on me taking them to the toilet every so often. Maybe in the beginning, we started out that way, but eventually, they had the ability to get up and go to the bathroom if they felt the urge to do so. It wasn't like, "Oh, well you didn't come get me, so I had an accident."

Andrea Olson:
I know.

Ashley Yeh:
I wanted them to get into it naturally from the beginning. I was going to say, I also just felt like the other issue that I ran into from my end, was just learning not to feel frustrated in the beginning when there were accidents. I know a lot of parents run into that, they're like, "I can't help it. It's been going on for days now. I don't know what to do, my carpets..." They're fretting about it, and I'm like, "I felt the same way in the beginning, but I had to learn to just let go a little bit."

Andrea Olson:
And what's the worst case scenario? You have some wetness, it's not the end of the world, and there are ways to mitigate that. I have my Tiny Undies line, we have the padded ones, the Tiny Trainers. Those usually keep their pee off the ground, a medium size, so it's okay. But mostly, it's the fear within, and I think you addressed that, too. That's the stumbling block, is ourselves, and the pressure that we put on ourselves to be perfect. Instead, if we just let go and observe and really pay attention to what's happening, everything is revealed.

Ashley Yeh:
Right.

Andrea Olson:
We just have to be patient with ourselves. I know if you're a planner, then maybe you're like me, we're just a little bit more Type A and just like, "Okay, I just want everything to be just so," and babies are so nonlinear. It's a great humbling process for us, I think.

Ashley Yeh:
Mm-hmm

Andrea Olson:
Now, I wanted to know, too, what is your opinion on early toilet learning, setting up a toddler for success? Because my opinion was, it frees them up for other learning and other tasks once they have tackled this. We have a lot of people potty training at three- and four-years-old because that's what they were told to do. My contention is, I feel like we miss a little bit of a window where there's ease, and then we can build other learning on top of that self-sufficiency. That's my take on it. What do you think about how early potty learning can set them up for further learning?

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah, you mentioned that window. In Montessori, we refer to that as a sensitive period. Montessori recognized that there was this sensitive period for toilet learning around the one-year mark, 12 to 18 months or so. Not obviously, for every single child, because everybody's on their own timeline, but for the vast majority, sometime during that time, they're going to start showing interest and awareness of what's going on. That's really that key golden time to lock in on that, and, like we said earlier, start preparing the environment so that they can be successful. I agree with you that if they're wasting all their time having accidents left and right, it's not setting them up for success, and they are potentially missing out on some more important work, developmental work, that they could be doing.

Then on the other side of the coin, I also feel like being able to have them begin this process when they are in that sensitive period, and not intentionally waiting until they're three or four, because that's what society dictates, it really helps to give them this feeling of empowerment like, "I can do this." They're gaining independence in matters related to their own bodies. I think that actually goes a long way in the preventative maintenance department, so that a lot of these issues that parents run into with toilet learning, they don't crop up at all. That's why I was saying, and I'm not trying to brag or pat myself on the back or anything, but I didn't have any of these issues because it was just so natural and gradual. I think being ready for that and ready to set out the environment really does go a long way.

Andrea Olson:
It does.

Ashley Yeh:
Also, just from toddler behavior in general, the more you can empower them and give them a sense of autonomy, the more cooperation you'll get from them. It's this feeling of, "We're on the same team," not you versus your child.

Andrea Olson:
Absolutely, and it normalizes their behavior, too. I did read that in one of the more dense Montessori books once they have tackled that and have that, there's this self confidence and self-esteem. You just see the pride in their faces and they're just like, "I've got this and this is my body. I am the sovereign director of this body." There's no need to have this hyperactive behavior of, "Okay, something's just not right." I see that a lot with our children who are in diapers, very soggy, big diapers, and their parents have been misled by these leaders in our culture who say to wait and wait and wait. Really that's just, if you follow the money, that's just a ploy to get us to buy more diapers for longer. In 1957, let's see, 92% of American babies were toilet-trained, done by 18 months. Not an average of 18 months, but they were just done by then. The New York Times reported on that in 1999, so we've got two, three generations where we've got double or triple potty training age. What happened back then, though, okay, sure, Grandma didn't want to wash more diapers. But also what happened was, "Hey, you're walking," and there's just this intuition as the mother of, "Yeah, I see you also looking at me using this toilet, and we're just going to start doing it."

It's almost like we didn't have the distractions back then, and we just had this sort of clear pallet of, "What is my child doing and needing right now and how can I provide that?" I feel like that is what got disturbed by these diaper companies, without going into the conspiracies around that. Well actually, there is a diaper executive in my town, who told me that they did have to do massive marketing to tell parents for readiness.

Ashley Yeh:
Oh wow.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah, because nobody wanted to buy these diapers. They did a great job at that and they took it a bit far.

Now for those people listening, I think that Ashley, you bring up a really good point of, well, it catches most parents by surprise. They're like, "Oh," at the two-year appointment at the pediatrician, "Oh my gosh, I can start potty learning now." But if we go back to maybe when they're a year old and they start to walk, how can we as parents prepare for this sensitive period of 12 to 18 months by doing things that you mentioned, having a mini potty on hand, having a mirror there, having a basket of toys and extra clothing, and being prepared for that awareness to develop?

For those listening who don't want to do EC or they're late in that window, that's what we can do, and we can share that with other parents who have babies. You were thinking about preschool.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah

Andrea Olson:
A lot of parents are just like, "I can't even think about tomorrow, so how could I possibly be thinking about toilet learning?" But we save ourselves so much hassle by doing it at a time when they're sensitive to it, when this is the task. 12 to 18 months, it's just so much easier. I think it does set them up for success and frees them up for learning, definitely.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah. I agree.

Andrea Olson:
Awesome. Now, I want to share with my audience just a little bit more about Montessori at home and infancy. Of course, we all need to go to Hapa Family and watch her YouTube channel, there's so many things. I especially loved the videos on developmental, is it how to play with babies at certain age ranges?

Ashley Yeh:
I think I have several activities videos from newborn all the way up through preschool. Yeah. Just some ideas for developmentally appropriate activities.

Andrea Olson:
I'm definitely going to link to those videos in particular in the show notes, so definitely check those out, you guys. But what is your number one biggest tip for parents who want to get started with Montessori at home with their infant?

Ashley Yeh:
Well, I would say first, declutter. I remember before I had my first, it was like, "You need all the things." That's what everyone's telling you, "You need this, that, and the other thing, or else your baby's not going to make it." You don't need 90% of it, so just declutter as many of the things as you can. Focus on your baby's natural development and not slapping them from device to device. Let them have some stretch time on the floor. But more importantly than that, to really stop yourself and practice observing. Practice taking a step back and observing your child for, even if it's just five minutes here, five minutes there, and just watching everything that they're doing, like a scientist might observe an animal, at a distance, trying not to disturb. Learn to get into that mindset so that you can really start to recognize some of your child's cues, whether it be for potty learning or anything else. This is a three-part answer.

Andrea Olson:
It's great, I love it.

Ashley Yeh:
But it goes along with it. While you're observing, obviously, you're responding accordingly then, if you see things that need to be tweaked in their environment. But once you've got it set, stop interrupting. Allow time for them to concentrate and focus. I think parents are always worried about like, "Well, my baby's bored," and they're not.

Andrea Olson:
I might need to entertain them.

Ashley Yeh:
They're not bored. The whole world is brand new to them. Everything is new, everything is amazing. We don't have to shove the toy in their face just because we're worried that they're going to get bored. They're amazing human beings all on their own.

Andrea Olson:
Just yesterday, we were at this outdoor park thing, and I saw a dad. He meant so well, he loved his kids so much, you could just tell. He was coaching him through how to crawl on this thing, and putting him up on it and everything. I was just like, "Just let him play with it. Just keep your hands off, don't coach him how to move his body. He's just going to explore that and learn that on his own." But he was a first-time dad and meant really well, and narrating everything and just really trying to coach him. I could tell he just cared so much. I think when we do that, it takes the child's autonomy and their inborn sense. They're just exploring all the time anyway, so we really just need to let them. I think RIE, a lot of that observing, and letting, and not interrupting is so important so that they can immerse in deep play and get their needs met, which is just going to happen with or without you, really.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah. I think it's really important to be able to learn to do that from infancy, from as early as possible. I know some parents come into Montessori a little bit later. It's not too late, you can certainly still start doing this with your toddler or even your preschooler. But the earlier you start, the more it becomes second nature for yourself as they get older.

Andrea Olson:
And it's the same with EC, it's the same thing. You're learning new habits and the way you start, you can continue much more easily than if you start later.

Ashley Yeh:
Right.

Andrea Olson:
Although some of us just start later, because we don't know about it until then. I have another podcast on RIE and I'm going to link to that, as well. I just don't want to forget that.

Ashley Yeh:
I actually have not heard it, so I will have to check it out.

Andrea Olson:
Oh, you haven't? Okay. Yeah. Because a lot of people over the years have been like, "Oh, I don't think RIE is compatible with EC." I finally was like, "Okay, I'm just going to look at it and really dissect it." I went point-by-point and found so much overlap and complimentary information.

Yeah, please check it out. I'll send you the link, too. Are you going to do Montessori preschool? Are you doing that now? I don't know how old your kids are now.

Ashley Yeh:
Actually, they turned five and three this past week.

Andrea Olson:
Awesome.

Ashley Yeh:
I am actually homeschooling my older daughter right now. We had intentions of sending her to a brick-and-mortar school and just with COVID and everything, we ended up pulling her out and I've been homeschooling her. But we are planning to send both of them in August, and we're excited for them to be able to finally go. It's been a long time coming. I've been enjoying homeschooling, don't get me wrong.

Andrea Olson:
Yes.

Ashley Yeh:
It's been so fun. I always take a small little bit of mommy pride that... I don't say anything, but in the back of my mind. My older daughter said to me the other day, she read something, I don't remember what it was. My husband said, "How did you know how to read? How did you know what that said?" She says, "Well, Mommy taught me to read." I was like, "Ugh." I'm so happy to have that honor so that she can say, "My mom taught me how to read." Yeah. I've been enjoying it, but I know they're also excited.

Andrea Olson:
I know exactly what you mean. Yeah.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
Yeah. Well, with COVID I also started homeschooling because of that. Now, I'm going to stick with it, but I did find a school to partner with. They do three days, I do two days a week, and then we have Montessori stuff at home. We have the metal insets so they learn how to hold their pencil. I've got certain select tools and toys for preschoolers, because I have two preschoolers right now that I feel like just really helped them. My next question would be what are, let's say for infants, so for babies 0 to 18 months, what would be the three most important tools, or toys you could call them, for Montessori learning? Or do we even need to buy anything? But if we did, what would be the ones you would recommend?

Ashley Yeh:
I hesitate to list specific toys, because I can immediately hear the pencil to paper in the background as soon as I say something like this. My thing that I'm always harping on in my videos is Montessori is not about the stuff. It's really not. I think a lot of people get hung up on that because that's how they're introduced to it. They see it on social media, on Instagram, these beautiful playrooms, and all these children sitting down at their tiny, little desks focusing on whatever the activity is they're working on. And then, they kind of get stuck there. I'm trying to harken back to the foundations here and remind people that it's not about this stuff. A lot of it is about the adult, about being prepared yourself, which is why we keep coming back to this observation piece, and learning to let go a little bit, and giving them the space that they need to concentrate. I wouldn't say any specific toys.

For an infant, if I had to name one thing that I would want to have in my own home if I had a new baby tomorrow, it would be to make sure that I have a space for them to stretch out and lay down. Depending on what your flooring situation is, if you've got a carpet and you feel it's clean enough that you're happy to put your child on it, then by all means, you don't need anything. But if you have hardwood floors or something where it's not as comfortable for a newborn, maybe just invest in a small little movement mat, something that has a lot of open space. It doesn't need to have any fancy things over the top of it and things dangling, nothing like that. Just an open space for them to lay comfortably where they can observe, and they can look at their own hands, and eventually transition into learning how to scoot and crawl and all that fun gross motor development that they really tend to focus on, anyway, in the last couple months of that first year.

Andrea Olson:
That's the number one thing. Yeah, totally. That's the number one thing, is one thing after another. With my new courses for EC, I've got this roadmap drawn out over here, but I took the book, Montessori From the Start.

Ashley Yeh:
Yes. I love that book.

Andrea Olson:
... by Lynn Lillard Jessen. I love that book, too. The drawings she has of the timeline of when crawling typically happens, when using both hands together typically happens, I feel like that's so important for new moms and dads to know sort of what to expect, because we're kind of clueless in the beginning. Then to align with what they need right now? You're right, all they really need is a place to move. I would add to that, hey, let's put them in some tiny trainers and let them really move without the diaper bulged between their legs, and feel how it is to be free. Then I want to add, if anybody listening has preschoolers or even young toddlers, I love the sandpaper letters. I definitely invested in some really nice sandpaper letters that I can teach the movement, again, it goes back to movement, but the movement of the letters with. We did some work with a mirror and making sounds. The little objects that all start with A or whatever yeah.

Ashley Yeh:
They love the tiny object.

Andrea Olson:
They really do. Oh, I do too. Now, they're everywhere. They've found them and they're not in alphabetical order anymore. My Virgo self is just like, "Oh my gosh, that was such work for me to prepare."

But it's silly. The little things that can prepare them for going into school and stuff, there are so many resources. I'm going to link to one of the homeschool curriculums I have for preschool. Which felt overwhelming, a lot of it is just like, "Oh, I have to be this perfect parent and make all these materials myself," when really you don't have to. Having a moveable alphabet is really, for me, it was plenty where we could play with the letters and touch and feel them. That's my addition, my kids are a little older too, and what do we do then? Where can we find you? You have online courses, yes?

Ashley Yeh:
Yes, I do.

Andrea Olson:
Tell us. Yes.

Ashley Yeh:
I'm on YouTube and Instagram, Hapa Family, it's pretty easy to find me. I also have a couple of e-courses on both doing Montessori at home, from birth all the way up through three years, and also one for Positive Discipline Parenting. Those are over on Teachable. I can send you the link if you want to put those in with your other ones.

Andrea Olson:
Yes.

Ashley Yeh:
I also just wrote my first book

Andrea Olson:
Yay. What is it called?

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah. I have it here. I grabbed it just in case.

Andrea Olson:
Oh, good.

Ashley Yeh:
The Montessori Home: Create a Space for Your Child to Thrive. It was published by DK.

Andrea Olson:
I love it.

Ashley Yeh:
That just launched last week

Andrea Olson:
Oh my gosh, you guys. Okay. I'll definitely link to that. Send me the links for your courses, as well.

Ashley Yeh:
Yeah.

Andrea Olson:
I feel like I would've loved to have had those about 11 years ago when I started with my first son. I'm so glad you do that. You have a blog, as well, that you put all this stuff on, too.

Ashley Yeh:
Yep. I have a website. Yeah. It's just my name, ashley-yeh.com.

Andrea Olson:
Okay. That's Y-E-H for those of you just listening. Is there anything else you want to leave us with?

Ashley Yeh:
No, this has been so fun. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me.

Andrea Olson:
I really appreciate you coming on. I'm so excited to share this with everybody. You guys, definitely check out Ashley. I'm telling you, her YouTube videos are amazing and they're going to help you so much. Ashley, thank you so much.

Ashley Yeh:
Thank you.

I hope you loved this interview with Ashley as much as I loved conducting it. It was so much fun to talk to her. I hope you check out her YouTube and everything, all the things, Instagram, Hapa Family. Over on the show notes, we have direct links to all of these things at godiaperfree.com/187. Over there, I'd love to know, have you implemented any Montessori in your house? Do you have any questions for us? Please post some in the comments over on the show notes, that is where we directly answer to all of these things. Please follow Ashley, and also follow Go Diaper Free if you haven't before. I really hope you enjoyed this show, and we'll see you next time.

Thanks so much for listening. This is the Go Diaper Free podcast at godiaperfree.com. We'll see you next time.